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Author Topic: Constitutional Amendment  (Read 5943 times)

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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2013, 10:40:00 AM »

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For some reason, unknown to me, I don't look at the govment as an institution trying to oppress me

one more thing and I'll get off my soapbox.

Did you know in the last several years multiple government non-military institutions have bought billions of rounds of ammunition.  The SSA bought 174,000 rounds of hollow point .45 caliber ammunition (you don't target practice with hollow points generally), the National Weather Service put in a 46,000 round buy and the Department of Homeland Security really outdid them all by purchasing nearly 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition .40 caliber, .223 and .308.  By comparison I've heard estimates that the US military used less than 70 million rounds in the Iraq war.

In addition to the DHS ordering an insane amount of ammunition it is also pushing to allow increased drone usage and bending the rules about using weaponized drones against domestic terrorist threats without due process and it has recently had its target supplier start supplying it with targets of pregnant women with guns, children with guns and elderly people with guns.

You can easily research any of this on the internet and I'm not sensationalizing it or misrepresenting it.

You tell me what the purpose of the purchases above are.

I've added a link to the site that has the targets.... the site is not one I frequent (lest you think I'm some kind of adherent nut to some sort of idealogy) its simply the first site that popped up when I typed "DHS pregnant targets" into google.

http://theallegiant.com/dhs-target-children-and-pregnant-women/

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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 01:15:27 AM »

Brownman, no offense but I think your statement that you "have no need" for an assault weapon is short sighted. As Cliftyman pointed out, the government obviously feels the need to buy billions of assault ammo when there hasn't been any real attack on our country since 9/11. So the government having all that stuff, and you not having any, makes you feel safe? What if the economy/American society collapses?

You need to accept that the government does not care about you as a person.
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copper creek

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 08:21:10 AM »

30,000 Americans are injured or killed each year by firearms.

Enough said.  The vast majority weren't killed or injured by the goverment.
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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 01:48:07 PM »

I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but I guarantee you this as a fact- less than 5% of those gun crimes are committed with semi-automatic rifles. The absolute vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by poor people and gang members, with handguns and occasionally shotguns. Acting all emotional and passing arbitrary bans on semi-automatic rifles (assault weapon is just a broad term the media demonizes) or magazines is not going to solve anything.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 01:49:49 PM by CheeseyDean »
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copper creek

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 03:20:41 PM »

A strong majority of Americans (92%) and most gun owners (82%) are for universal background checks.  Why is the NRA opposed?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/opinion/kelly-gun-loophole/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 12:04:05 AM »

Because even more background checks will just make it even more inconvenient for law-abiding citizens to buy guns, meanwhile the gang members and burglars who use guns illegally will just keep on buying them through illegal means.

However, I do agree that there needs to be BETTER background checks, for stuff like mental health, etc. Just not necessarily more. I think private citizens being able to sell to each other should still be possible.
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nsaP

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2013, 04:17:03 PM »

Also a way for the NRA and gun groups to stay relevant since apparently Obama's not taking their guns and frankly they've won the gun fight.  Gotta keep that money coming in tho...maybe Obama will take their guns next time!

I made this post a couple of weeks too soon huh!
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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2013, 08:59:33 PM »

Quote
30,000 Americans are injured or killed each year by firearms.

Enough said.  The vast majority weren't killed or injured by the goverment.

I think you need to dig much deeper into your numbers....

Lookup FBI violent crime stats.... I'll make it easy for you.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

The above stats are for 2011 since 2012 stats are preliminary but they should be fairly relevant.

So the true number of firearm deaths is 8000+ as reported by the FBI and the overwhelming majority by firearm was handgun.... knives have killed more than 10x the amount of people as rifles and hands and feet have killed twice as many people as rifles.

So with this new found knowledge don't get upset at me and try to find some nuance in my data to try and gain the upper hand.  With this new found knowledge compare what I've shared with you to what you hear daily on the mainstream media, news outlets and television and ask yourself "are they presenting the facts in the proper light?"

After you ask yourself that question consider "are they intentionally misleading people?"

Also consider that car accidents, DUIs and heart attacks kill vastly more people than personal defense rifles.... so what are we doing about that?  Are we banning fast food, banning alcohol and cars?  No of course not.... so the action of banning personal defense rifles which are much less lethal is so much more illogical.
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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 01:03:11 AM »

Pffft, the media would never try to mislead us! They're not ruled by money or corporations, and their main concern is reporting truth and non-biased facts to the public. Quit being a paranoid gun nut.




Just kidding.
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copper creek

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2013, 10:39:45 PM »

I agree that the media and our politicians are biased and prejudiced, both on the right and left.  But they are a reflection of us all, with our own biases and prejudices.  It is sometimes difficult to discern the truth.  I do believe we have a problem with gun violence in America and I believe most Americans agree.  That is not paranoia in my opinion just a recognition of a serious problem.  If the figure is 8000 deaths a year (instead of the 30,000 deaths and injuries I've seen quoted), that's still more than twice the number of people killed on 9/11.  We went to war for those deaths.  It seems to me we could do better.  We need ideas on solutions.  Universal background checks seem reasonable to me, are acceptable to most Americans ( including strong majorities of gun owners and NRA members), and would be a good first step.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/mark-kelly-closing-gun-show-loophole-is-right-way-to-go-88187.html
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 07:13:13 AM by copper creek »
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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 12:23:19 AM »

War is not the right answer to everything.

Also, something I feel is worth noting- there is no real "gun show loophole". Like "assault rifle", it's a misconstrued term the media uses to scare people. The so-called "loophole" has ALWAYS been there. For as long as there has been gun laws, many states have allowed private citizens to sell to each other without any regulation. That's all it is; citizens buying and selling to each other, without the need of the government's involvement.

Criminals and deranged killers aren't going to be concerned about background checks or obtaining a gun legally, so why should we put any more burden on citizens?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:25:16 AM by CheeseyDean »
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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 11:49:57 AM »

I think gun violence is terrible.  As you guys may know we recently had a person who was heavily invested in the community (worked with kids at our performing Arts center) who was shot three times @ 2PM in a parking lot in the middle of town by a court officer.

This man had a 2 week old baby and two other kids.  No one knows all the details and no one knows if it was due to a gripe, road-rage or what.

Fact is that restricting gun ownership would have done nothing to help this man.  The fact is that gun free zones do nothing to protect our children.  Fact is that restricting the 2nd ammendment rights of law-abiding citizens do nothing but empower the criminals.

I am all for having sturdy background checks for any individual who purchases a new firearm, but when you have to police secondary sales you are simply admitting that your checks on original purchases didn't work.  As CheeseyDean posted there is no "loophole" for private sales at gun shows.  Private selling without regulation is a hallmark of a free enterprise capitalistic society.  You must realize to when you put regulations on private sales it creates all sorts of burdens on people.  Can I loan my gun to someone to take it hunting, can I sell or give my firearm to a family member?  Can I pass my firearms to my kids without restrictions?

IF we had caring, responsible individuals running our government I would agree with you wholeheartedly but the actions of our politicians speak for themselves.  Government shows its corruption and negligence daily.  We have 16 trillion in debt.  If a private individual acted like the government it would be bankrupt or in jail. 

Until our politicians show they can hold themselves to the same standard as I hold myself I refuse to give them anymore power over my life, and if I'm a responsible individual I can always do a better job of taking myself and protecting myself than the government can... at least on a personal, local level.

It all boils down to the federal government overreaching more and more.  I actually wouldn't mind the local or state government getting harsher on some things because you know what?  I could move.  When the feds do it they are overreaching and messing up the balance of powers that our forefathers intended.
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Woodsman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 02:30:11 PM »

Right on cliftyman!! I could not have said it any better.
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Woodsman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2013, 02:57:59 PM »

Cheeseydean thank you for clarifying to everyone that there is no such thing as "gunshow loopholes" or "assault weapons".
 More people are killed by clubs and hammers than by modern sporting rifles. Should we ban "dangerous" high density louisville slugger "assault" bats?! No! Assault is an action, not a category of weapon.
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