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traildust

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Constitutional Amendment
« on: October 26, 2012, 05:05:51 PM »

With all due respect to my hunting and fishing friends.  I want to make a pitch for a "NO" vote on the proposed constitutional amendment that will be voted on in the general election on November 6th.  NRA staff have gone around the country twisting arms and convincing our legislators that an amendment that well here read below.

Summary: Propose to amend the Constitution of Kentucky to create a right to hunt, fish, and harvest nonthreatened species using traditional methods.
 
Measure Text: The citizens of Kentucky have the personal right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife, using traditional methods, subject only to statutes enacted by the Legislature, and to administrative regulations adopted by the designated state agency to promote wildlife conservation and management and to preserve the future of hunting and fishing. Public hunting and fishing shall be a preferred means of managing and controlling wildlife. This section shall not be construed to modify any provision of law relating to trespass, property rights, or the regulation of commercial activities.

Sounds pretty straight forward right.  Here is my issue.  This amendment is not needed now or in the next 100 years.  There is not one environmental group or any group trying to take away anyone's right to hunt or fish in Ky.  It is a crazy notion and would never see the light of day in the state legislator.  The NRA and its folks have presured our legislators into this, they fear if they did not support the NRA they would be voted out in the next election.  We don't need the NRA telling us how to live do we.  My other concern is we can't just willy-nilly change the state constitution for some specific group of people without some justification.  Again, there is not one lawsuit pending attempting to restrict any one's hunting or fishing rights.

So please vote "NO" if you agree that we need to protect our state constitution from the influence of all outside groups.  If we don't stand here then what's to stop N.O.W. from getting an amendment posted to outlaw grey haired legislators who are against abortion, or an amendment recognizing our rights to drink bourbon.  You can't ignore the vote - not voting is a yes vote and that is what the NRA wants folks to do.  This could pass with only a couple thousand votes when the general election post a couple million. 

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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 04:13:05 AM »

I'll be voting no as well. I don't understand why this is even needed? People can already hunt all non threatened species here.
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Trekker Forrest

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 12:38:21 PM »

I agree.  I've received mailings about this from the NRA and didn't see the point when I was reading them.  I subscribe to Jefferson's Maxim : That Government Is Best Which Governs Least.  We already have too many laws, half of which are redundant with the first half.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  Back in my Debate days, we had this principle called Inherency.  It asked if there was already a law, agency or tradition in place which covered the same issue.  If there was, then we didn't need a duplicative one.  Anyone proposing a change bore the burden of proving that somehow existing laws or agencies did not adequately deal with the problem.  In this case, I see no evidence that there is a problem now.  So I vote No. 
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Jay01

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2012, 12:05:43 PM »

How is the NRA selling this...  Whats the rational behind needing this bill?
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genes

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 01:56:33 PM »

I feel reasonably sure that somewhere in this legal rhetoric is wording to benefit the NRA.
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Gene

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 09:29:44 PM »

I wondered this as well and also voted no.  As far as I can tell they're worried about some special interest group putting restrictions on hunting.  When I was looking into it I think there was a ban in California on hunting bears with dogs or something like that and a few states like our's are afraid of these boogeymen.

I raised the same questions y'all did on the KDFWR facebook page cause they were promoting it and they told people to "beware of what I say" and they questioned if I was working for some nefarious organization....lol.  As if it's impossible for someone to just disagree.

Also a way for the NRA and gun groups to stay relevant since apparently Obama's not taking their guns and frankly they've won the gun fight.  Gotta keep that money coming in tho...maybe Obama will take their guns next time!
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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 04:13:56 PM »

What is up with the vitrole towards the NRA right now?

The NRA came out and made a clear and concise statement regarding the Sandy Hook massacre.  They said schools needed better protection.... that they needed armed protection.  The president and many other politicals in Washington send their children to schools with armed guards.... why can't we "masses" have the same level of protection and why is the NRA scorned for suggesting something the president himself participates in? "Gun Free Zones" do nothing to protect anyone.  They simply proclaim that law-abiding citizens will not be armed to defend themselves against pyschopaths that do not adhere to them.

The NRA's sole obligation is to uphold a citizen's right to bear arms.  This right to bear arms is not something granted by the government.  This is a natural right that the government is not supposed to infringe.  I'm afraid many people in our country forget we are only 200 or some odd years removed from tyranny.  They act like it could never happen again.  No law will protect you when a group of tyrannical politicians get enough power to inflict oppression on you.  They can take what they wish to take, they can treat you unjustly.  The only thing in the world that will keep it from occurring is use of force.

Some act like a citizen owning a semi-automatic sport gun with some black plastic and a collapsible stock should be a punishable offense.  Do you realize this is a far cry from what the government has at their disposal?  The government has fully automatic and select fire class A machine guns, drones that can mount .50 caliber machine guns and rockets and all sorts of intel, mines and anti-personal weapons platforms at their disposal.  Do you really think any individual has a chance against that... but they want to go a step further and limit us to single shot weapons.... that is their long-term goal.

The right to bear arms is there for us to protect our own because it is first and foremost OUR duty to protect our family.  Just like its our duty to take care of our own family and not the governments to take care of us.  A high capacity shotgun or a semi-automatic sport gun is a perfectly justifiable weapon to protect our families from criminals who more often than not may have advanced weapons in their hand.  Have you ever seen first responders really save anyone?  No their first duty is to neutralize the current threat and more often than not check the pulse of the already dead innocent victims of some pyschopath.

My entire point in this is I think you guys should focus some of your mistrust and scorn on our government.  The NRA is a private group trying to keep our individual rights alive.  Yeah they help firearms companies keep making money... so what?  They are private companies and they don't have the ability to oppress you, steal your constitutionally granted rights... they create jobs and they do create products for law-abiding citizens to enjoy through target practice, hunting and defend themselves with.

And yes... there is certainly a threat to hunting.  I have friends that live in other countries where the government has practically regulated hunting into oblivion.  Senators like Diane Feinstein have made it pretty clear she doesn't believe in many gun rights at all... and if you think she would stop with her current proposed legislation if given enough power you are fooling yourself.

I also subscribe to Jefferson's Maxim that the government should govern less.... but I also understand that states rights are an answer to federal overreach.  This response is perfectly feasible and I applaud our state for seeking to uphold the constitution where the federal government would limit it.  If limits were to be placed on gun ownership, those limits should be placed locally and at a state level... such as what Illinois and the city of New York have done (and due to those laws those places are a violent crime hell).... I'm very thankful that with our freedom-minded populace and hunting culture we make legislation that upholds our rights instead of limits them.

BTW, I am not a member of the NRA
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CheeseyDean

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »

I support the NRA's attempts at keeping our right to own firearms unimpeded (like most of us, I own a couple guns). But even more rights for hunters are not needed, at least not in America. I don't see hunting going away any time soon.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 07:02:56 PM by CheeseyDean »
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Ewker

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 09:35:42 AM »

lots of fear going on here
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keith

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 02:23:36 PM »

lots of fear going on here
"Even paranoids have enemies." - Henry A. Kissinger
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Ewker

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 03:27:51 PM »

lots of fear going on here
"Even paranoids have enemies." - Henry A. Kissinger


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Brownman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 09:27:48 PM »

For some reason, unknown to me, I don't look at the govment as an institution trying to oppress me.  The Bill of Rights limits what govment cannot do to the citizenry and within these ten amendments I feel reasonably safe. I am a gun owner but do not and will not possess an assault weapon.  Just don't feel the need for one. Instead of worrying about the govment enslaving me I look forward to more schools, roads and worthwhile social programs. If we can cut out the abuse and provide assistance only to those who truly need it, perhaps we can enjoy some of the wonderful things made possible by the Department of the Interior. Yes, the govment does work for us.   
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Ewker

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 11:16:43 PM »

For some reason, unknown to me, I don't look at the govment as an institution trying to oppress me.  The Bill of Rights limits what govment cannot do to the citizenry and within these ten amendments I feel reasonably safe. I am a gun owner but do not and will not possess an assault weapon.  Just don't feel the need for one. Instead of worrying about the govment enslaving me I look forward to more schools, roads and worthwhile social programs. If we can cut out the abuse and provide assistance only to those who truly need it, perhaps we can enjoy some of the wonderful things made possible by the Department of the Interior. Yes, the govment does work for us.


nice post  :)
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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2013, 09:44:37 AM »

Quote
For some reason, unknown to me, I don't look at the govment as an institution trying to oppress me.  The Bill of Rights limits what govment cannot do to the citizenry and within these ten amendments I feel reasonably safe. I am a gun owner but do not and will not possess an assault weapon.  Just don't feel the need for one. Instead of worrying about the govment enslaving me I look forward to more schools, roads and worthwhile social programs. If we can cut out the abuse and provide assistance only to those who truly need it, perhaps we can enjoy some of the wonderful things made possible by the Department of the Interior. Yes, the govment does work for us.

I would love to live in a nation where we have responsible leaders who aren't sold out to lobbyists or govern in the interest of increasing their own power but the facts speak for themselves.  Our government is over $16 trillion in debt.  It is almost to the point where it will be unable to do anything for you.  This has nothing to do with fear... it has to do with simple economics.  Government makes "wonderful" things possible with the labor of taxpayers and they aren't making enough for its insatiable appetite.  In the last 4 years the bill of rights has been extended beyond its original intent and the American definition of government has went beyond life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to include life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, a government health care plan, a job, a cellphone, internet access, lunch, assisted suicide and the list goes on and on.

Our government simply can't pay for it all.. and just like the parent who gives their children everything they want and creates spoiled brats who fight and quarrel and have to sell the family estate, our government is creating a irresponsible, spoiled populace whose lavish spending and ignorance will be the undoing of this once great Republic.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 09:49:28 AM by Cliftyman »
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Cliftyman

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Re: Constitutional Amendment
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2013, 09:54:43 AM »

BTW, please read this....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704429304574467071019099570.html

I'm afraid if you are asking for more social programs you don't realize the predicament in... and sorry, "bombing China" won't be an option to get us out.

Any politician that calls for expanding government will oppress you due to the problem above, even if they are doing it inadvertently.

The only option to get us out of this mess is to cut spending and reduce programs.
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