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thedayhascome

December 05, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Just returned from the Red. Enjoyed beautiful sunrises and the super moon, it was an awesome time!
 

Bazinga

November 23, 2017, 07:22:04 AM
Turkey & wine today, Hiking in the gorge tomorrow. Life is GOOD!!!

ShifuCareaga

October 31, 2017, 10:08:51 AM
That's my surmise as well. I've seen also, about 4 or 5 all black wooly worms. That... is weird.
 

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KYhiker40

October 24, 2017, 06:58:54 PM
How are the leaves looking about now? I'm headed to RRG this Friday.

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Author Topic: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018  (Read 257 times)

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Mark W

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Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« on: November 28, 2017, 03:55:32 PM »

Nope, not an attempt at an April Fool's Joke . . . there is a full page photo of Hopewell Arch in the January 2018 edition of Backpacker. The article mentions the user trail to get there, Snow and Double Deer Arches (which oddly it said were more well-known, which I didn't think was the case), and of course Copperas Creek Falls.

I find it disturbing that Backpacker features this off-trail destination, when user trails are one of the main challenges facing the USFS in the Red River Gorge and drawing more people to them doesn't seem in keeping with Leave No Trace principles, which Backpacker says its articles should adhere to. Not to mention that the RRG doesn't need any more promotion and there are delightful arches in other parts of the Big South Fork or the Daniel Boone National Forest.

My frustration is compounded when I think about the disservice Backpacker did the RRG in 2011 when it, not kidding, told people to camp in the rockshelter at the top of Indian Staircase. That issue was discussed here: http://www.kywilderness.com/forum/index.php?topic=4827.0


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KYhiker40

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 07:25:22 PM »

I have no words.  I'm disgusted.  The only positive is that they were at least unaware of the other features on the same trail. 

You know, i'm perfectly fine with giving directions to Star Gap Arch, Indian Staircase, Hanson's Point, etc.  But when you start mass publication of directions to Hopewell, Snow, and Double Deer, you just don't give a rats rear about protecting the outdoors. 
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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 08:30:53 PM »

yeah that's pretty shady; although not as shady as telling people to camp under a rockshelter which is not legal.

I don't think it's bad to highlight the arches, just the offtrail trails. They could have gone with Rock Bridge and Creation Falls to Pooch's Turtle Falls or something off beat but official.

ALSO I agree they could have plugged ANY part of the Daniel Boone, or hell one of the preserves near to RRG/NBSRP

It just goes to show you how hard it is to stop people from loving something to death.
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thedayhascome

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 06:35:28 AM »

I was coming to make a similar post. I actually took a double take when flipping through, thinking to myself, "Hey, that looks oddly familiar. Is that RRG? No way. Hopewell? Certainly not, not in this magazine. It must be somewhere in Utah." Look more closely. Throw magazine.

Pretty disappointing that Backpacker selected this arch to highlight. It's also going to be nearly impossible to find for most people reading this magazine, which is just going to destroy the terrain even more.

Since it's no secret thanks to BP magazine, here is the full page spread.

And who the hell is Bob Brown? I'm assuming he sent this to Backpacker Mag excitedly after someone took him there or provided GPS coordinates.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 06:43:13 AM by thedayhascome »
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RCKT_RCCN

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 08:23:00 AM »

thedayhascome thanks for sharing the photo, tried to look for the article online - not there yet. Thankfully.

Why on earth would they pick Hopewell of all places??  >:(  :'(

This makes me really sad for Copperas Creek.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:54:23 AM by RCKT_RCCN »
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633

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 10:30:45 AM »

My son and I hiked to Snow and Double Deer last Friday,On the way back out we ran across a family with two very young girls.The woman stopped me and ask me if I've ever been to Snows Arch and handed me that very copy of Backpacker.
I laughed and told her to turn around her girls would never make it.
Directions to arches are available online but highlighting these or any off trail arches in a national publication is just wrong.
It makes people think they are readily accessible,when in reality anyone Who's been to Snow and Double Deer will gladly tell you otherwise.
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RCKT_RCCN

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 01:13:00 PM »

My son and I hiked to Snow and Double Deer last Friday,On the way back out we ran across a family with two very young girls.The woman stopped me and ask me if I've ever been to Snows Arch and handed me that very copy of Backpacker.
I laughed and told her to turn around her girls would never make it.
Directions to arches are available online but highlighting these or any off trail arches in a national publication is just wrong.
It makes people think they are readily accessible,when in reality anyone Who's been to Snow and Double Deer will gladly tell you otherwise.


Agreed. Despite the lack of rock, accessing Snow is still one of the hardest scrambles I've done in the gorge, not to mention one of the toughest to find. Not for the casual hiker. Hence the major problem with the magazine feature. Lazy journalism.
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wsp_scott

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »

I think it is worth noting that the people who produce the magazine have likely never been to RRG and have no idea why this is a bad idea. Someone local must have submitted this and the editors thought it looked like a cool arch in a part of the country they frequently ignore.

Don't shoot the editors, shoot Bob Brown and write a letter to the editor explaining how they are ruining some of the best places on Earth by publicizing them like this. They even mention that it is barely mentioned on Google so they know it is secret/special and then they publicize it. Hell with it, shoot the editors after you shoot Bob Brown.

P.S. cancel your subscription, backpacker is full of ads and lots of bad advice :)
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Bazinga

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2017, 09:06:15 AM »

Doesn’t bother me if folks want to visit off trail destinations (many are awesome), but I absolutely HATE the trash they leave behind everywhere!!!

At least the odds are in our favor…80% of visitors won’t leave the trail, push through the dead fall/rhodo forest, or read a map (IMO).

Just curious…How did ya'll find out about Hopewell arch?  What is your opinion on the Arches DVDs? Paid guides? Hinterlands?

Agreed. Despite the lack of rock, accessing Snow is still one of the hardest scrambles I've done in the gorge, not to mention one of the toughest to find. Not for the casual hiker. Hence the major problem with the magazine feature. Lazy journalism.

When we arch hunting newbies, we found some info about Hopewell, Snow & Double Deer on the web.  With a compass in hand (no smart phone back then) & grainy printed map, off we went hunting.  Didn’t find Hopewell (later we realized how close we were after a successful trip), but found Snow & Double Deer.  To this day, it was one of the hardest trips we’ve ever done.  It was hot and humid with light rain...a soggy, slippery, muddy mess.  What a great adventure!!  ;)  (Yep, I'm nuts!!!  :laugh:).
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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 10:32:46 AM »

I don't see how punishing the magazine will improve the situation; ignorance is the source of suffering. Not having a decent mag to represent a sport or hobby is not likely to improve situations but make them worse, IMO. Rather, collect a petition of names or have a list of dedicated people write fervently to the editors and make a stink.

I wasn't 100% sure of the website but I found what I thought was the page for the issue and posted the link to this thread there as a form of soft protest. If the webmaster sees it and opens the link, they will get an eyeful.

Just - you know - if you want an Art of War guy's opinion.

Funny aside; despite being pretty accessible and easy to hike to, with official DBNF roads and such, and even a ladder left on location, the Devil's Markethouse Arch did not have a single bit of graffiti on it. (hallelujah)

I think culture has a lot to do with things. RRG has a very open energy and it's opened more and more with each excited post. Openness invites all sorts of energies to fill the void.

I am sure that the magazine did open it even more; but you know this site is pretty excited about RRG too, cannot they say that the Where in RRG thread invites a lot of looky-loos? My point isn't that closing the thread is an answer, but that it's about what kind of openness you create. By directing the energy you can influence what happens.
I've found the same thing with closed arches. Some are closed to negative outsiders and some to positive outsiders and when I find them it's obvious that abusers are the most frequent users. The energy matrix is different, but both are closed. So my query (to myself I suppose) is how to close off to negative outsiders and open to positive outsiders.

A one size fits all solution will probably not work. 

When I found the camp underneath [that arch] in the lesser known area of DBNF I called it in and the rangers vowed to remove it.  I am a positive outsider. I am sure the camp was from a negative insider. So I think that though the arch was closed to outsider knowledge it was a good thing I pierced through that.

All my point is that things in this world are paradoxical, and I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about the solutions.

Not if you want to fix horrible travesties like Lakiji Rock or Alcove Arch. Just a thought (or three)
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thedayhascome

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 01:10:54 PM »

Doesn’t bother me if folks want to visit off trail destinations (many are awesome), but I absolutely HATE the trash they leave behind everywhere!!!

At least the odds are in our favor…80% of visitors won’t leave the trail, push through the dead fall/rhodo forest, or read a map (IMO).

Just curious…How did ya'll find out about Hopewell arch?  What is your opinion on the Arches DVDs? Paid guides? Hinterlands?

We all started somewhere, had little knowledge about the locations of arches and other interesting formations and sought it out through either word of mouth, hints of locations online, paid guides, Hinterlands Book, OutrageGIS maps, Arches DVDs, GPS coordinates, and just plain went out searching. I have no issues with anyone seeking these hidden treasures, because I went through the same process a long time ago and continue to use all of these sources today to find all of the hidden gems. Normally, people who are looking for some of these less visited locations already have an appreciation of the outdoors, respect the natural beauty and practice leave no trace principles - and again, I emphasize they are the ones actively seeking them out.

The issues that I have with a major publication (Backpacker Magazine) releasing information and general locations to lesser known arches, such as Hopewell, Double Deer, and Snow Arches, is that these are located within unofficial areas of Red with no Forest Service USDA support or maintained trails which could potentially introduce +hundreds of hikers into an area with no official trail and greatly damage the natural flora.

I agree with ShifuCareaga, it comes down to culture. We are now living in the era of Instagram Outdoor Enthusiasts looking for that next awesome pic to get more likes, which could also be the similar type of person who leaves trash behind and disrespects the landscape. So again, my issue is that now hundreds-to-thousands of individuals come in looking for these arches, never knowing of their existence before with very little knowledge. Again, it is true that most of these people will never find these arches because if you don't have a map or GPS, you will most likely never find them, which is what has kept them in their more pristine, and less traveled state for so long.

I love the energy and enthusiasm for people getting to RRG and hiking, and introducing the Red to others who have never visited. I don't blame Backpacker magazine because they know very little about the locations of these arches or the politics behind it. This is just part of the growing pains of introducing the Red to more people who hopefully don't end up "loving it to death".
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KYhiker40

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 08:13:47 PM »

I must admit, for me there is a sort of an "I've earned it" attitude about it.  I feel like having spent time online, researching, studying google maps, talking to other hikers, and all the other research that goes into even knowing something like Sandy's Arch exists, like that somehow entitles me to the right to enjoy that feature.  I've earned it, or should I say I have respect for it, and it scares me to think that the area will turn into the next Star Gap Arch.

That's a part of the issue as well for me.  There are so many awesome features in the RRG that deserve to be featured in Backpacker Magazine, that are already so well known it wouldn't interfere with anything.  Why not feature Indian Staircase, Star Gap Arch, or Hanson's Point.  I just don't see the point in writing about an area that the magazine apparently knows nothing about.

But I don't mind anybody wanting to seek out these features thru research.  I've probably escorted a dozen people to Star Gap who've asked me if I know where it is.  I've also directed several people away from dominate features on purpose, seeing a group of 20 partying near Rock Bridge asking about nearby off trail arches.  No thanks. Not the crowd I want visiting 'my' RRG.
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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Hopewell Arch in Backpacker Magazine, January 2018
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 10:18:43 AM »

But I don't mind anybody wanting to seek out these features thru research.  I've probably escorted a dozen people to Star Gap who've asked me if I know where it is.  I've also directed several people away from dominate features on purpose, seeing a group of 20 partying near Rock Bridge asking about nearby off trail arches.  No thanks. Not the crowd I want visiting 'my' RRG.

that's the key right there. That's what I mean also by culture. YOU are the best protection - short of an army of rangers. People like yourselves out there, keeping it open to positive outsiders and closed to negative ones, is absolutely key. And wisdom is the only solution I can see there; we also need more mentoring in our little world or community. Meetup is a start, but realistically not mainstreamed anymore. Which is sad, but times change.  I'm sure at some point it'll have a huge revival.  In the meantime sites like this one help to inform the culture surrounding the situation.

We all agree that we don't want the type of situation like they have in the west coast with certain hot springs, hidden pools and falls where a massive influx of party/burning man mentality people come in, bring trash, pretend to be natural, but leave a wreck behind them.

I think ANOTHER solution also exists. Help, in any way possible, to promote our State Park and State Resort Park system. In the case of RRG, frankly the more yuppies visiting Natural Bridge, the more the RRG is protected.  Kind of keeping their energies directed on common activities will buy us some time. NBSRP is perhaps not the best example of an underused resource, but trust me, all over the state there are tons of resources to direct the less.... savvy ... to do.  Here everyone is using all the different resources, but realistically the resources elsewhere are hugely underused.

Of the ten categories in my study, Crowds is one of the 2 highest scoring.  Which means for the individual an excellent advantage; but for the location/resource actually it means most resources are underused.

So while NBSRP is way overused (3 in crowds) and coupled with the arch preservation scores in the "Needs Work" category... the vast vast majority of WMA, SNP, NRA, etc... score 10 in the crowds category... which I argue isn't actually a great thing.
RRG (sky bridge scores an 7, chimney top a 7) generally does better, but you can see the overuse factor in their scores.

Just some thoughts, not sure if they make sense to anyone else, or not.

Here's the latest scoring avg graph (and stats below for KY)



AVG Score:   85.56944444   B, Bronze
# entries   576   

note: includes non-natural locations (such as historical, museums, etc...)
I have not crunched only natural data yet.
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