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December 11, 2017, 06:10:47 PM

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thedayhascome

December 05, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Just returned from the Red. Enjoyed beautiful sunrises and the super moon, it was an awesome time!
 

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November 23, 2017, 07:22:04 AM
Turkey & wine today, Hiking in the gorge tomorrow. Life is GOOD!!!

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October 31, 2017, 10:08:51 AM
That's my surmise as well. I've seen also, about 4 or 5 all black wooly worms. That... is weird.
 

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October 24, 2017, 06:58:54 PM
How are the leaves looking about now? I'm headed to RRG this Friday.

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Author Topic: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)  (Read 640 times)

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shaman

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On Monday morning, I decided to head on up to Cloud Splitter, it's been almost 10 years since I've been up there. I was in a good mood as I left my truck, adjusted my pack, checked my ISO, f-stop and shutter settings on my camera and proceeded along the ST connector trail.
But my good mood deteriorated rather quickly after 30 seconds of hiking. As someone who admires Art and Nature, I'm asking you to take a moment to feast your eyes on OUR aesthetic contribution to Mother Earth's canvas:


True Love.




America, for you and me...


 








Daisy Dukes & her panties (???!!!): "a weekend to remember, sort of, maybe, whatever..."







Poop, ready to drain into the sand, then the Red River (then the Kentucky, the Ohio, the Mississippi and finally the Gulf of Mexico) fecal coliform, anyone?




This woman was sunbathing with her head 5 feet from a poop filled disposable diaper, when I told her about it, (before I put it in my trash bag) she just giggled (WTF?)
 anything for that perfect tan...






This is some of the trash Steve and I carried back to the dumpsters, we had to make 3 trips:





Ahh... a weekend of floating, drinking and destruction... (then back to the office Monday morning, to brag about their 'cool' weekend outdoor adventure)


« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 11:03:27 AM by shaman »
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thedayhascome

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 10:31:59 AM »

Mother Earth's canvas...

Thanks, shaman, for cleaning up all of the trash you came across. It's a shame that some people have no respect for themselves, others, or mother nature. I find this type of behavior absolutely disgusting.

"We're not animals... clean up after yourself! What did your mother teach you?"
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Mark W

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 12:34:46 PM »

Kentucky certainly takes the gold medal in trashing natural landscapes -- both at the micro level (see Shaman's post for examples) as well as the macro level (mountaintop removal). Truly something to be proud of!

I'm not going to say I NEVER see trash on the trails or at campsites out here in Montana (and Idaho and Washington) but it is nothing like what it was in the RRG or other areas of Kentucky.
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wsp_scott

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 09:29:17 AM »

A month or so ago I took my kids to splash in the river at Jump Rock. The amount of crap that was left there was ridiculous. We also found one of those floats for a cooler with the bottom no longer holding air. My kids had a fun time floating around with the boat and then we carried out ~15 beer cans along with the cooler float. While we were there, I talked to a couple guys who were camping in the gorge and doing some day hiking, they also carried out a ton of other people's garbage that day. I'm just glad to know that I'm not the only one trying to clean up after others.

The graffiti makes me want to push someone off a cliff, I don't understand that mentality at all.

shaman, thanks for making all those trips with other people's garbage.
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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 03:09:31 PM »

so about that Steering Committee I want to form to take it to a National Park....  :-\
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shaman

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 09:03:14 AM »

Thanks to everyone (a handful of you) who has replied and shown how they feel about this deplorable behavior.
I know there are many more of you who have their opinions. I would like to hear your voices. Silence only normalizes the trashing of America.
Some just choose to ignore the situation and walk on past it, while others may be part of the problem, a cigarette butt here, a Dasani bottle over in the rhododendron, nobody will see...
People use the Gorge for many different reasons. Some to escape the city for awhile. Some to party (unfortunately). Some to climb. Some for solitude. Some to admire & study geology, botany, etc. Some like to capture the Gorge's different moods with photographs. But everyone should have respect for others and try understand thier intent and perspective.
 
BUT DESTRUCTION, LITTERING, CARVING INITIALS, CHOPPING UP INNOCENT TREES, LEAVING HUMAN WASTE UNBURIED AND NEAR WATER, SPRAY PAINTING AND ANY OTHER ACTS OF DISRESPECT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED

The Gorge should be a place to recharge the soul and catch your breath. Maybe come back from your visit with a different outlook and a better appreciation for life on Earth.



Can we work together to keep the Gorge and Mother Earth clean and beautiful, like the Gods intended?
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RCKT_RCCN

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 09:32:10 AM »

I agree with the sentiment of everyone who has responded. It seems we've revisited this topic several times over the past couple years.
so about that Steering Committee I want to form to take it to a National Park....  :-\

This brings up a question that I have: how much mistreatment do our other parks experience? I haven't had many opportunities to explore national parks, but in my brief encounters I've never seen the levels of trash that are present in the Red. And it keeps getting worse. In the last decade or so that I've been going to the gorge it seems every year there is more trash than before. Would a national park designation help the issues (greater funding)?

What can be done on a county or state level to increase awareness of the myriad issues and begin to clean up the Red (or better yet change the culture)?
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wsp_scott

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 10:54:08 AM »

Sadly, I think it is a Kentucky thing and a National Park designation would not do much good.

In the last year, I have backpacked in RRG, BSF, Smokies, Dolly Sods and Joyce Kilmer. I have also hiked in SW VA and West NC. The only place I have seen anything like these pictures is RRG and BSF. The other places have some garbage, but I have never seen the disgusting fire rings and massive amounts of trash that I have seen in KY. Just to be clear, only one of those is a National Park.

For whatever reason, the are a huge number of people playing outside in KY that don't give a shit. I have no idea how to fix this mentality, but I'm pretty sure there is no quick fix. Just writing that makes me sad :(
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Mark W

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 03:22:11 PM »

In the last year, I have backpacked in RRG, BSF, Smokies, Dolly Sods and Joyce Kilmer.

Nice! A list like that make me really miss the Southern Appalachians. I am still kicking myself for never making the trip to Dolly Sods when I lived in Kentucky.

And now that you mention it, other than the RRG and the BSF in Kentucky I didn't run across any trashed campsites in Joyce Kilmer-Slickrock Wilderness or the Smokies. Sure, some litter here and there, but nothing like the RRG . . . it's almost like the Rapture happened at the campsites before anyone had a chance to pick up the trash.

Not to go into ancient history, but in 2010 the RRG was named the first Leave No Trace "hostpot" by Leave No Trace. Seems like the impact of those "efforts" was minimal. I think there was some talk about more signs and a few info sessions were hosted by LNT. Basically, the RRG had the dubious distinction of being nationally recognized as one of the most trashed areas for outdoor recreation in North America. We're #1!!!

I think national monument status with strict limits on "backcountry" camping is the only solution.
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RCKT_RCCN

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 03:30:44 PM »

it's almost like the Rapture happened at the campsites before anyone had a chance to pick up the trash.
Ha!  :laugh:

I think national monument status with strict limits on "backcountry" camping is the only solution.

I'm completely on board with this idea. I'll gladly forfeit my ability to dispersed camping in the Gorge if it means its no longer trashed..
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Bazinga

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 08:24:16 AM »

I've often complained about the trash/latrines scattered throughout the gorge (and other natural areas).  From the huge trash pile by Star Gap, crap cave by Big Hole Arch, the banks of Indian Creek and broken glass everywhere (at least the plastic bottles won't injure puppy paws), those pigs return and continue to leave large quanities of trash (Disgusting!!!!).
One of the main reason we avoid trails and over-used camp sites...Luna-pup eats everything (yeah, she's gross).  Once when hiking out by Gray's wall, she found some nasty poop & started to gobble it up (eewwwww!!!) later when we stopped for a break, we realized she had it splattered all down her chin & chest. ???

**End of Rant**

Anyways, A Great Big Ole Thank You to all those cleaning up after the partying piggies!!  ;)
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FallenArches

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 12:03:52 PM »

Litterbugs and vandals, two classes of people that deserve no respect.  These acts are microcosims of their overall attitude in every walk of life...work, play, family, etc.  They should not be trusted, as they live a life of selfish convenience and have no respect or concern for anyone or anything.   

At least that is what I told, and continue to tell, my kids. 

I make a point to leave no trace.  I could do better about picking up stuff I find as I hike.   
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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 02:59:22 PM »

I disagree it would do little or nothing. It would bring enough funding to have more rangers and more cleanup efforts. Actually parks like Smokies, Yosemite, Yellowstone get TONS of trash. You don't see it because they are regularly cleaning up.  In KY the DBNF has half the roads shut down... that leaves a LOT of wiggle room for people to behave unseen. What we need are regular good folks seeing and doing more.  That's the effort I am in: to bring more awareness, not less. The days of everything being hidden are gone. The internet has changed all that. Now we need hyper-awareness. KY is simply behind in modern methods of conservation and management. As usual.

Regardless, we all agree. Doing nothing is not going to fly and isn't going to get us anywhere. We need more education programs, and outings, and less people doing whatever with no repercussions.

My son had his first cubscout trip yesterday... we hauled out 4 pieces from Lower Howard's Creek. A lot of people were there, actually. But how many carried out trash?

btw I saw a garr there, and couldn't get a pic faster than it went and hid under a rock shelf. Very nice.

These places mean so much to me. And I hope people are ready to help me in these political efforts. I am more than halfway through the scoring, and here's the latest:

AVG Score:   85.72544643   B, Bronze
# entries   448   
A++   59   
A+    53   
A   54   
A-   82   
B+   46   
B    24   
B-   25   
C+   18   
C   21   
C-   13   
D   21   
F   32   



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ShifuCareaga

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 03:22:51 PM »

Another way of putting it, taking my opinion out and using the data, is this:

the single most important factor in the scoring, including the 30% regarding preservation, is funding. All the best scores are always highly funded.

Tell me what other way to get more funding for RRG - as it deserves - than as a National Park?

I would drop the mic but this sort of thing sells itself.
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wsp_scott

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Re: Disgusting, Irresponsible, Selfish and Illegal... (right, Rangers?)
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 09:48:35 PM »

I disagree it would do little or nothing. It would bring enough funding to have more rangers and more cleanup efforts. Actually parks like Smokies, Yosemite, Yellowstone get TONS of trash. You don't see it because they are regularly cleaning up.  In KY the DBNF has half the roads shut down... that leaves a LOT of wiggle room for people to behave unseen. What we need are regular good folks seeing and doing more.  That's the effort I am in: to bring more awareness, not less. The days of everything being hidden are gone. The internet has changed all that. Now we need hyper-awareness. KY is simply behind in modern methods of conservation and management. As usual.

Unfortunately, I still have to disagree. The Dolly Sods get a huge number of visitors, probably more than the gorge. I've backpacked there 4 times now for a total of 7 nights. In all that time, I have seen less trash than I'd see in a one hour day hike in the gorge. And while funding/education is important, this is just a beautiful location in a National Forest, not a National Park. In fact, the Dolly Sods probably has less funding and less rangers than the RRG.

I could tell the same story about Joyce Kilmer/Slickrock or Shining Rock Wildernesses, huge numbers of people, not a lot of money/rangers and not a lot of trash.

With all that said, I agree that the RRG could use more money/rangers and the average visitor could use a lot of LNT education. I still would love to see the gravel roads shut down to vehicles and backcountry camping only in specified sites. This goes hand in hand with more money for patrolling rangers to ticket/punish wrong-doers.
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