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June 19, 2018, 09:16:35 PM

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May 18, 2018, 09:08:29 PM
This old lady is officially on Vacation!!  Rented a cabin in BSF next week. :)


April 29, 2018, 12:03:39 PM
The red was looking great yesterday. Wish I had time to go to Muir today.


April 12, 2018, 12:34:27 AM
Hang Em High Horse Camp, or White Oak Boat in; north a bit from there near Horse Lick Creek is the S-tree primitive camps, it's actually quite nice.
If you want large, then of course you're back to state park and lake campgrounds.

Pat Curran

April 05, 2018, 05:40:14 PM
I'm looking for info regarding backcountry camping in the DBNF London District, preferably near Buck Creek.  Bee Rock and Rockcastle Campgrounds are both closed and we'd prefer to camp more primitively. Little Lick is small and best suited for horses.


February 22, 2018, 01:13:51 PM
intending to hit raven's run this Sunday, msg me if you want to go

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Author Topic: Castle to Red Byrd  (Read 846 times)

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  • Thru Hiker
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Re: Castle to Red Byrd
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 06:15:04 PM »

Some of the lesser used paths (not a huge trail, but a well defined path) have markers and I always think...if you need markers to follow the path, should you really be out here?

But the folks that chop on the trees, what are they thinking?  They're just slowly killing the trees.  :'(

That's why I'm not personally an advocate of pulling down flags.  I'm afraid they will just turn to the hatchet marks.


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Re: Castle to Red Byrd
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 09:12:12 AM »

While not a fan of neon flags, I must admit that I have been helped by a few of them over the last 45 years of backpacking.  I have backpacked in areas where the blazes were terrible; almost non existent.  In those areas, after being "bewildered" for sometime, I was very grateful to stumble upon a neon flag. 
I have never found it necessary to install them myself and in most areas of the RRG or BSF they simple aren't necessary as the trails are readily visible without neon flags.  Whenever I need to mark a specific point, I usually just find some sticks or rocks and make a flag or indicator using them.  The sticks and rocks last long enough to be useful to me and then they get recycled back into the terrain. 
One thought, if neon flags are a necessity for whatever reason, why not use neon crepe paper.  It is readily visible, just like the neon nylon tape, but the crepe paper being biodegradable will return to nature within a short period of time.  I would imagine the crepe paper flags would last a couple of rains and then be gone. 



  • Thru Hiker
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Re: Castle to Red Byrd
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 07:42:31 PM »

I have some of the crepe paper in my pack (never had to use it).  I've seen some spray paint markers (at least it's better than chopping up the trees).
The cliff lines whisper "I have secrets to share".  But sometimes they lie!! :D


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Re: Castle to Red Byrd
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2017, 11:45:09 AM »

I just pulled some garbage out of trees yesterday on the Douglas Trail. This was the part of the trail before the turnoff to Eagle Falls. Who needs a flag for that trail?

P.S. the gorge was more full than I have ever seen it. There were about 30 cars along the road near the canoe launch and I passed a ton of people on the Douglas Trail. I was the one with the 3 small kids if we passed you :)

All the more reason it needs to become a national park, with better trail designations.

Mark made a good point. But the "you never know"... even once... is all I care about.

That time it's you or me... that's when you think 'glad someone did this'

There are better ways. But my money is on the State doing it because I see the same method out at the SNP's


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Re: Castle to Red Byrd
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 03:02:48 PM »

I've been following the discussion and can say that while the flags are helpful for others, they do go against my leave-no-trace principles and disrupt the natural beauty of the wilderness. If I don't know where I'm going and I can't it with a topo or GPS, then maybe I wasn't mean to find it. This is the teach a man to fish mentality, and the same concept that I don't do stuff for my kids when they are completely capable of figuring it out and learning on their own. The reward is so much greater than having it served to you on a silver platter.

With that being said, I am against flagging a trail with bright markers, spray paint, physically marring trees, etc. However, there are more natural and less intrusive ways, such as cairns, identifying a unique tree (Star Gap Arch turn-off), a rock structure resembling a shape, sharing word-of-mouth anecdotes, or other physical attributes to help lead the way. That would always be my preference aside from GPS coords.

There's a great article that recently posted regarding cairns that I encourage everyone to read. https://www.garagegrowngear.com/blogs/magazine/the-controversy-of-cairns

I think this summarizes the way we all feel very succinctly:

Yes, cairns are signs and reminders of humanity, but so are the trails themselves. So are the trailheads you start at, the trail markers you follow, the maps/GPSs you bring, and the protected National Parks that you travel in.

In fact, if you blame cairns for destroying your wilderness experience, you probably have a misguided view of the uniqueness of your journey.
I go to Nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put together. John Burroughs

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